(general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

A forum set up for physics questions from students in the courses PHYS1121, 1131, 1221 and 1331 at the University of New South Wales. It is intended for questions that cannot readily be answered in class,
either because they fall outside the main syllabus and therefore would be distraction (however interesting) or for other reasons.

Moderator: msmod

9997766
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:43 pm

(general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby 9997766 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:14 pm

Hi there,
so me and my friend stumbled into this Searl Effect Generator, apparently built by Prof John R. R. Searl originally, claims to convert electrons into usable electricity (if i understand what i watched right). I haven't done much research on this topic but will look into it maybe after the exams. In the mean time, i would like to see how you guys think about this. Is this generator legit? theory making sense? (anyone wanna built one together? :o ) Russians also has a copy named MEC (Magnetic Energy Converter).

youtube link explains the theory http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVLRKDlE8c4

youtube and google searl and you'll get enough to read

Note this is a general discussion for fun, so dont get too serious

User avatar
joe
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:57 am
Location: Sydney

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby joe » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:02 am

The movie is clever in two ways:

First, the 'explanation' starts with child-like language - 'Here is Amy the electron' - which warns the viewer that the rest of the explanation will be at that level: you are watching the kindergarten version and there will be no attempt to explain what force is accelerating the electrons. For the same reason, you are expected not to object to childish statements like 'convertor of electrons into usable electricity' or 'drawn to the flux line'.

Second, it jumps from animation to film in a way that makes you think that there is a working device.

So to the questions:
If you had a working device, surely you would film it working: Here it is, rotating, here is the light bulb that it is powering, no connections to the mains, and here is the skeptic who has searched for batteries hidden in the device (a technique used in some perpetual motion scams).

So, why is there no working device? Could it be they need more injections of cash?

More in next post
Joe

User avatar
joe
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:57 am
Location: Sydney

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby joe » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:13 am

On this forum in 2005, we had discussions on several proposed 'perpetual motion machines'. Some of them were interesting because they actually discussed the physics involved and therefore posed a challenged to physicists: Where is the flaw in this argument?

Sometimes some subtle and very interesting physics is involved, e.g.
viewtopic.php?t=572

The Youtube video you quote doesn't discuss any clearly defined physics, so there is no argument to disprove.

Joe

9997766
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby 9997766 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:41 pm

Oh yeah! I didn't realise that language thing.. Thanks joe!

User avatar
joe
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:57 am
Location: Sydney

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby joe » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:59 pm

I have some sympathy for the perpetual motion (PM) folk. When I was a little boy and had just discovered magnets, I thought of several ways to make a PM using them. I even built a couple, which didn't work. But at the time I was sure that they would: I just needed better magnets, some mu-metal, low viscosity wheel bearings... I pestered my dad with sketches of how it would and sought injections of capital (above and beyond my pocket money, which was inadequate for the task). Perhaps because I didn't have nice computer graphics (and didn't know terms like 'boson pairs'), none of my potential financial partners agreed to the investment. However, no-one could convince me that my device wouldn't have worked if only I had had a good enough version - that had to wait until I discovered about eddy currents and induced magnetic dipoles.

So perhaps that is one reason why I spent so much time back in 2005 replying to the PM folk on this bulletin board! The other is that some interesting physics was involved.

Joe

9997766
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby 9997766 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:40 pm

I guess why PM folks' sound very persuasive a lot of times is because firstly the physics involved is a little tricky to explain, secondly the viewer himself has the fantasy to build a pm machine. The thing is, this one I mentioned does not claim to be a pm machine, but a converter. That's why it fooled me the first time.

Vinyasi
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby Vinyasi » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:18 pm

It may not be a scam. But in what sense do we apply the term?
Scam, as in: is this the original version, or is it meant to replace the original?

I think the latter since no magnets were employed in his first tests, yet the current model/s require a magnetic field.

Originally, purely an electrostatic charge was built up surrounding a metallic disk set to spin via a gasoline/petrol motor.

The concept couldn't have been simpler: a metal disk (I suspect a non-ferrous disk) and a combustion engine. That's it. Anything else has come along for the ride to keep his legacy spinning despite the quiet removal of his original concept from our social memory.

I cite Joseph Cater's book, "The Awesome Life Force", from 1984, sold on Amazon, chapter 22, page 289.

http://w.earthinglife.info/media/searl.png

Vinyasi
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby Vinyasi » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:21 pm

If my guess is true, then my second presumption is that Searl's original concept could be at the foundation of another story - this time, attributed to Tesla by William Lyne in his book, "Pentagon Aliens" (also on Amazon) towards the back of his book where he discusses Tesla's Special Generator, also known as his Tri-Metal Generator.

First of all, inertia is equivalent to gravity since Bruce DePalma had determined via experimentation with gyroscopes that a spinning ball rose and fell through the air much faster than did a non-spinning ball if the spinning ball was projected along its axis of spin. But this does not alone explain Searl's effect. So, electrostatics somehow is enhancing the DePalma effect. Probably by saturation of Searl's disks with current (see below).

Vinyasi
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby Vinyasi » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:22 pm

The difference, if I may borrow from Mr. Lyne, is that Searl's disks attract inertia along their axis of spin on one side of each disk and shoot it out along this same axis on the opposing side due to an axial direction of flow of electric charge from one end of the axle toward the other. Thus, both cause and - most importantly - effect are put to good use to propel these disks up and out of any practical reach (in their original tests).

Thus, the shape of Searl's disks is significant or else DePalma would have been able to make his spinning balls fly up, or fall down, like a Searl disk! But that didn't happen.

This inertial flow along the perimeter of a Searl disk moved, not only the disk in space, but also froze the movement of magnetic charge so that electric charge would over-saturate the disk's field.

Vinyasi
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby Vinyasi » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:23 pm

In other words, gravity and inertia are equivalent to an imbalance in the magnetic and electric fields of an electrodynamic process. When the open circuit of an electrostatic field predominates, then levity or gravity predominates. But whenever magnetism predominates within the confines of a closed circuit, then electricity is the result. Since any given situation is never purely one or the other but a blend of these two situations, then describing any given situation becomes more or less complicated. Searl kept it simple: cause (he mechanically spun a metal disk) and effect (the disk rose up and flew off into probably orbit around the Earth).

Vinyasi
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby Vinyasi » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:24 pm

In Tesla's case, his Special Generator made use of an iron chassis - bolted, and thus - magnetically coupled to the floor of a limited class of Nazi era U-Boats making the entire hull of their craft a huge magnetic sink. My guess is that this diminished the magnetic saturation of the chassis immediately surrounding Tesla's generator which ran on similar electrostatic principles to a Searl disk (not the usual coils of wire generating magnetic fields, but - instead - a hub of aluminum disks). This diminishment of magnetic field - by comparison to its associated electric field - may have created a saturation of current within each spinning disk. At least, this was one salient feature of Adam Trombly's Unipolar Disk as cited by his friend Bryan Strohm.

The way John Searl describes his initial experiments of measuring a voltage difference between the edge of each spinning disk and its axle sounds like a classic outtake from the legacy of a Michael Faraday homopolar, or unipolar, disk/motor/generator.

User avatar
joe
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:57 am
Location: Sydney

Re: (general)Is Searl Effect Generator real? Anyone?

Postby joe » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:24 pm

sounds like a classic outtake from the legacy of a Michael Faraday homopolar, or unipolar, disk/motor/generator.


Homopolar generators and motors are described here on our Physclips site
http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu. ... opolar.htm

Just to be clear, homopolar generators and motors do work, as the movies show. And they work because they use simple electromagnetic induction and electromagnetic forces – there are no mystical forces involved. (cf. the first few posts in this discussion.) So be careful not to confuse these devices with the Searl story.


Return to “Physics Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests